EPISODE 271: Modern Dilemmas: Regulatory Capture, Global Governance, and the Surveillance State with Dr. Robert W. Malone

Speaker 1:                    Welcome to the Bill Walton Show, featuring conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs, artists and thinkers, fresh perspectives on money, culture, politics and human flourishing. Interesting people, interesting things.

Bill Walton:                   It’s an extremely rare thing in life when you get to become friends with the man you consider [00:00:30] one of the great heroes of our time, and I’ve been fortunate enough in this case to become friends with Dr. Robert Malone, who I think you all know, is internationally recognized scientist, physician, and the original inventor of the mRNA vaccination as a technology, also the DNA vaccination and multiple non-viral DNA and RNA, mRNA vaccinations.

                                    Now that I’ve gotten rid of that mouthful, [00:01:00] I can reach out to my friend Robert. Robert lives nearby our place in Rappahannock County in a place you call Galt’s Gulch.

Robert Malone:             Galt’s Gulch. Yes.

Bill Walton:                   Galt’s Gulch, which is from Ayn Rand, which is where all the brilliant people left to escape the predations of government in the ’50s. You’re going to need a lot of room in the 2020s.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. And bigger fences.

Bill Walton:                   And bigger fences. And we’re likely to talk about everything today, but [00:01:30] in specific, I wanted to talk about two pieces that he published on his tremendous Substack site called Who is Robert Malone. And one is the experience he had recently with Substack itself and their payments’ processor Stripe, and what Stripe intended to do, which was to request all of his personal financial information to continue processing his Substack payments.

                                    [00:02:00] And the other thing I want to talk about is something that came out just this week, which talks about … Title of it, On-Line Narcissistic Self-Victimization. And that’s a lot of big words, but essentially I think the online world is a world where a lot of crazy people have found a home and it’s nurturing to a lot of deviant behaviors. And a lot of those deviant behaviors are driving much of what we think of as dysfunctional modern life. So, [00:02:30] we want to talk about that.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. And public discourse.

Bill Walton:                   And public discourse. And it’s really taken us off … The public square has become an ugly place. So, do you want to start with that or do you want to start with the Stripe situation, which you resolved after?

Robert Malone:             Whatever works for you.

Bill Walton:                   Let’s jump into the … Well, it’s not a narrow topic. I mean, Substack only allows one payment process, which is Stripe.

Robert Malone:             Precisely. Right.

Bill Walton:                   So, you’ve got no options as to how you can have your subscribers pay you. And then, Stripe came to you about [00:03:00] a month ago and sent you an email that said what?

Robert Malone:             So yeah, Bill, and thanks for the overly generous introduction.

Bill Walton:                   Not really.

Robert Malone:             It’s my honor and pleasure to have you and Sarah as friends. You’ve been fighting this battle for a long time, a lot longer than I have, so with all due respect.

                                    So, jumping to the topic, the [00:03:30] big picture is the weaponization of finance. And I assert that this has been a gradualistic process, a gradual or incremental implementation of weaponization of finance. And I don’t know how conscious it’s been in terms of the big scope from big finance. You would be in a better position than I to address that, but to my [00:04:00] theory of the case, the United States government found itself in a position with the Iranian government a number of years ago, where it just didn’t have much diplomatic leverage. And in the face of that, there was a decision to take, what then seemed to me a relatively novel approach of seizing financial assets of the revolutionary government of Iran [00:04:30] and weaponizing those for diplomatic purposes. I think the success of that was debatable.

                                    Then to move along in the timeline towards normalization. When we had the situation with the Ukraine, and we can arm wrestle about who was the primary aggressor in that, but [00:05:00] certainly the Russian Federation invaded Ukraine. We can all agree on that. And once again, the United States State Department found itself with limited options in terms of how to respond to that and how to exert pressure.

                                    And so, once again, the SWIFT banking system, which now is coming to the fore in other ways, with its decision to endorse central bank digital currency, [00:05:30] was weaponized against the government of Russia. And we had basically a de-banking of Russia. And we can all agree on that, as often is the case when we have these slippery slopes, it’s all for the best reasons and the best of intentions, but nobody at the time … They’re just focusing on the best of intentions and they’re not thinking about the potential long-term consequences and implications of normalizing that type of strategy.

                                    So, there was a [00:06:00] general consensus in the West that it was acceptable to weaponize finance against Russia. And perhaps, I don’t know if it was really thought through, the potential blowback of incentivizing Russia to participate or enable the BRICS currency consortium and the consequences of potentially challenging the petrodollar. But that’s what we did.

                                    And then along comes the trucker protest [00:06:30] and the Canadian government’s response to a bunch of honking truckers that were protesting peacefully government actions in terms of forcing truckers in particular to take the vaccine if they were going to participate in their industry, and particularly in cross-border shipping, which is a major part of Canadian trucking. And those stories are shocking, if you listen to first-person accounts [00:07:00] of what actually transpired. People couldn’t pay their mortgage, they couldn’t feed their family, they couldn’t purchase diesel for their trucks. It was freezing conditions. And now we have Canadian courts making a determination that that was an inappropriate and invalid action that the Canadian government took under the guise that this was a national emergency and it was necessary and adequate, appropriate to take these extreme [00:07:30] measures.

                                    And then we had, as a part of that, the de-banking and seizure of assets that had been donated, as you’ll recall, through GoFundMe accounts. And GoFundMe was going to seize those and hold them and not distribute them, not return them. So, there’s a little bit of a conflict of interest there. And again, well, then this starts to get a little morally ambiguous, [00:08:00] and some people have problems with that, and other people are saying that it’s acceptable because the threat, you’ll recall the manufactured threat, that these people were compromised by neo-Nazis, far-right ideologies, et cetera. And there was what appeared to be false flag operations mounted against the Canadian truckers by what appeared to be certainly, if not agents of the government and entities that were [00:08:30] sympathetic to the government, that were using regalia in messaging which was consistent with the government’s thesis that these were far-right neo-Nazi radicals influencing this.

Bill Walton:                   Well, anybody that doesn’t agree with Trudeau is a far-right Nazi.

Robert Malone:             Right.

Bill Walton:                   So, I mean, this is the label you just got to get used to.

Robert Malone:             You’re right. And it’s becoming universally applied. [00:09:00] Matter of fact, in my communication now, increasingly-

Bill Walton:                   Are we considered far-right Nazis? You may not be. I am occasionally.

Robert Malone:             Certainly, one of the things that the US government has tagged me for is being conservative. So, I’m specifically identified as-

Bill Walton:                   Which agency or all agencies?

Robert Malone:             This is Homeland.

Bill Walton:                   Homeland. CISA.

Robert Malone:             Yeah.

Bill Walton:                   Jen Easterly. My favorite bureaucrat.

Robert Malone:             So, I’ve been tagged with that moniker [00:09:30] and that’s been used to justify some of the censorship and activities.

                                    I want to put it in this broader context, that there’s this growing trend that many of us are very concerned about, that seems to lead towards implementation of a social credit system based on central bank digital currency, and that everything seems to be moving towards that and there seems to be a stepwise normalization towards that. [00:10:00] And this, I think is a trend that we’ve seen throughout the COVID crisis and in retrospect, really in public policy in a number of forms going before that is, it’s almost like test marketing. A strategy will be tested out, I assume is floated somewhere. I don’t know where these things get cooked.

Bill Walton:                   In Davos. It gets started in Davos.

Robert Malone:             Yeah.

Bill Walton:                   By the way, they did three or four years ago, they’ve rolled out the idea that credit [00:10:30] cards could contain all your financial information and could be used to monitor your carbon footprint. So, these things all come together, the climate, the-

Robert Malone:             Yeah, right, because all towards an agenda that’s not entirely transparent, but yet we can see the broad outlines of it.

                                    So, this process of incremental testing of different strategies and incremental normalization, they’ll often have a setback, they’ll fall [00:11:00] back, go quiet for a while, and then test an alternative strategy. And I think that’s the context in which this experience that we had really makes more sense of Stripe-

Bill Walton:                   They came back to you with an email … I don’t mean to interrupt, but it’s chilling language. “When you first set up your Stripe account, we asked that you connect your bank account in order to receive payouts. We are now requesting that you link your bank account, which involves sharing [00:11:30] details and activity relating to your bank account with Stripe. This includes your current account balance and transactions as well as historical transactions.”

Robert Malone:             Right.

Bill Walton:                   Your whole-

Robert Malone:             They want full transparency. In this case, it’s my primary commercial account, which they now have at least three years of transaction records. They know what my cash flow is coming from Stripe and from Substack. The underlying thesis seems to be, as in retrospect, [00:12:00] having engaged with them legally, that it’s necessary for Stripe as a credit card processing company in order to implement certain federal guidance, having to do with know your customer. Okay? And the acronym associated with that, NYC, is what they use now. This is part of the buzzwords. And so, this is in some way justified as necessary to know your customer.

                                    [00:12:30] And according to Stripe, they had received, initially, there had been other federal communication that had led them to decide that they needed to implement this policy, which as you mentioned from reading, was initially phrased as a request. Within two days, it became a requirement. And that we would functionally be cut off from revenue [00:13:00] from the account, from our subscribers, within, at that point, I think it was about a week. So, we had a week to comply by selecting a button, which would allow them to fully integrate access into our bank account, capture all the prior records-

Bill Walton:                   Selecting a button on your-

Robert Malone:             Yeah. So, all this is transactional online.

Bill Walton:                   Okay.

Robert Malone:             And so, they were asking that we click a button to accept new terms and conditions, including [00:13:30] authorization for them to fully integrate into our commercial account.

Bill Walton:                   So, when we see that standard language across our screen in the future, and they’ve got a little checkbox in there saying,-

Robert Malone:             Beware. Beware.

Bill Walton:                   … “I accept the terms of your…” Because there could be a lot of bad stuff.

Robert Malone:             This is like the small print when you buy a car.

Bill Walton:                   We’re seeing this as the beginning of many other incidents like this.

Robert Malone:             I would say now it’s not the beginning. That’s the whole point I’m making. This is midstream now.

Bill Walton:                   Okay. Yeah, I agree.

Robert Malone:             So, this is an [00:14:00] incremental process of normalization and getting all of us accommodated to the logic that we would allow full access to financial firms, of all our records. And once again, for all the best reasons, because it’s necessary to ensure that I’m not a terrorist or I’m not doing business with terrorists or I’m not funding terrorists. I mean, it can all be justified based on that. Remembering that technically [00:14:30] I’m now defined as a terrorist by the Department of Homeland Security because I’ve been defined by the New York Times and the Washington Post and the Atlantic monthly and Rolling Stone, et cetera, as a purveyor of misinformation.

                                    And you’ll recall that Homeland Security put out a guidance that purveyors of mis, dis and malinformation would be defined as domestic terrorists. And so, that can then trigger [00:15:00] all of the terrorist legal consequences.

Bill Walton:                   And we’re going to cover the waterfront here, but this is embedded in what Jen Easterly at CISA believes is her franchise, which is to … She calls it, technically they’re supposed to be responsible for protecting American infrastructure. Let’s talk about the bridge in Baltimore.

Robert Malone:             Right, exactly.

Bill Walton:                   They’re really on the job.

Robert Malone:             Talk about taking your eyes off the prize, right?

Bill Walton:                   But instead, they’ve got their eyes on you and probably me, [00:15:30] and they’re trying to protect sensitive Americans from disinformation, misinformation and malinformation. And she’s defined infrastructure as our cognitive infrastructure.

Robert Malone:             Just so.

Bill Walton:                   She and many others.

Robert Malone:             What we have as part of this incrementalism is they are weaponizing language and they’re redefining language in every plane that they can. For instance, now formally in Webster’s, you are an anti-vaxxer if [00:16:00] you oppose vaccine mandates, okay? So, then you can apply the anti-vaxxer weaponized term to anybody, which now is a plurality, if not a majority of Americans, that oppose mandatory vaccination.

                                    So, that’s this whole trend of weaponizing language that underpins all of this logic, because once they weaponize the words that have been used in other statutes for other purposes, so congressionally [00:16:30] authorized language, and if they can then take that language and repurpose it through weaponization, then they can apply those statutes to what’s now normalized as a new meaning for that term.

Bill Walton:                   And I’m talking to a man who invented the vaccine that was used to-

Robert Malone:             The tech, not the jab.

Bill Walton:                   The technology, but that’s the point I wanted to get to. I jumped through your very interesting and long and successful career just to get to our conversation. But you [00:17:00] hold many, many patents in the field of gene delivery and vaccines. You’ve got 100 scientific-

Robert Malone:             I was secret cleared by DoD.

Bill Walton:                   Exactly.

Robert Malone:             This is one of the things that’s also weaponized against me is that I must be deep state because of the nature of my CV and all the things that I’ve done.

Bill Walton:                   And you were living a private life until 2020 when this madness began. And you took what you knew and you began to develop deep skepticism about the [00:17:30] COVID-19 vaccines, how they’re being developed and how they’re being forced on the world.

Robert Malone:             Yeah, it’s the forcing that-

Bill Walton:                   Yeah, the coercion.

Robert Malone:             … caused me to come out of the closet after 30 years of being a consultant, practicing the policy of letting my clients take the credit, staying behind the scenes, being quietly effective, as a good consultant does, to C-suite individuals. Being a trusted confidant and speaker of truth. That was my brand.

                                    [00:18:00] And then, when I saw the ethical breaches that were happening, I thought that that was a safe place to speak out against the failure to provide informed consent and the breaches of established biomedical ethics. I thought, well, everybody can agree on that. I can speak about that and I’m not going to get hammered, like I’m already seeing some of my colleagues getting hammered. And I had already experienced it. And Jill and I were censored with our first book [00:18:30] in, I think it was March or April of 2020. This was the book on how to prepare and protect yourself from the novel coronavirus, that was censored by Amazon.

Bill Walton:                   And you mentioned ivermectin.

Robert Malone:             No, not-

Bill Walton:                   You did.

Robert Malone:             Well, ivermectin was one, but that was further down line.

Bill Walton:                   Okay.

Robert Malone:             So, the book was really very straightforward, standard stuff for infectious disease policy. And I think the objection there … We did talk about masks. I think the underlying objection, having [00:19:00] spent a lot of time trying to track that, because there were White House meetings with Amazon, with World Health Organization, et cetera, early, early in 2020, I think the government just did not want to have any source of information other than the official channels.

Bill Walton:                   We’re going to circle back to Stripe, but I think this is an interesting loop to get there, because the White House, not just the White House, there were four or five or six or maybe a dozen agencies that were [00:19:30] interested in censoring any dispute about what it was they were trying to get people to do. And-

Robert Malone:             Well, not just agencies, Bill. So, I recently in another Substack published Philip Kruse’s legal complaint against the Swiss government. What a lot of folks don’t appreciate, unless you’ve had the opportunity to travel and talk to a lot of people, is that these same exact policies were deployed [00:20:00] in a harmonized fashion across the West, simultaneously. So, it’s not just US. That’s what leads to the big question, one of the ones that’s really troubled me for a long time, what entity has the power and capabilities to coordinate a propaganda campaign globally at this level? This is multi-continental. [00:20:30] It is throughout and notoriously the Five Eyes Nations, UK, US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

Bill Walton:                   All English speaking.

Robert Malone:             And all part of that tightest central of intelligence agency cooperative arrangements that are very much reciprocal, but it was beyond that. Germany, Austria, [00:21:00] all across the Western world, with the exception of Russia and its satellite associates, and the China consortium. Africa was passive-aggressive on some of this.

Bill Walton:                   Well, the face of this is … And I knew this would happen, because it’s like having dinner together where we digress into everything else that’s interesting. [00:21:30] But the face of this now, the apparent face is the World Health Organization, and the World Health Organization is organizing new … They’re amending their charter and they’re also pulling together a new, quote, “pandemic treaty” that will codify and authorize and require countries to fall in line.

Robert Malone:             So, that is a key rabbit hole we ought to go down. I suggest we park that because that’s a good 10, 15 minutes to go into what’s going on with the WHO.

Bill Walton:                   Okay, I’ll just put it on my spreadsheet here. I’ll park this one over here.

Robert Malone:             The thing with [00:22:00] the WHO, and I’ve been there, I’ve spoken there, I’ve presented multiple times, I’ve represented Department of Defense there. During the Ebola outbreak, I played a key role in bringing forward what’s now the Merck Ebola vaccine through WHO. And my colleagues at DoD early on told me, “Robert, don’t be naive. We created the WHO. It has a strong US [00:22:30] intelligence component to it.” Okay? The WHO is not an independent entity. Okay? It’s very much a geopolitical player and a tool.

Bill Walton:                   Mm-hmm. Quite agree.

Robert Malone:             And that tool now has become … It now, I think, represents the interests of multiple political groups and nation states.

Bill Walton:                   Well, Bill Gates is its largest individual [00:23:00] contributor, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. And then all the pharmaceutical companies are contributors to it through their nonprofit. You can’t see the name Pfizer or Merck or the other big ones, but they’re there.

Robert Malone:             No, more than they’re there. And I know this from first-person experience. I mean, the company that I was representing, which was a small Midwestern firm that owned the rights to this patent because they bought it from the Canadian government. Basically, when [00:23:30] the decision was made that our vaccine candidate was superior to that of, I think it was GSK at the time, was the leading candidate, and had no virus vector product. The director general of the WHO basically came up and pitched us that we needed to contribute the WHO now because we’d be benefiting from their policies. It was a shakedown. Okay? That stunned me.

Bill Walton:                   Yeah.

Robert Malone:             I also know from personal experience that the WHO facing staffing shortages and financial shortages [00:24:00] started to do a deal wherein companies, pharma, et cetera, biotechs, could sponsor FTEs … Sorry, I’ve just bumped the mic. That would then provide labor and services to support a otherwise unfulfilled requirement of the WHO. But those were sponsored employees of this [00:24:30] financial entity, and they would report back to the financial entities. Functionally, they were spies for pharma, that were there paid by pharma to do both pharma bidding and ostensibly meet the needs of the WHO.

                                    The organization is deeply, deeply corrupt. If you spend time there, you’ll hear all kinds of stories. I heard one story about a notorious argument where someone from, [00:25:00] I don’t remember, it was from Black Sea area, was interacting with a WHO official and had offered him a Persian rug as part of their interactions to incentivize the appropriate response. And notoriously, there was a huge shouting and the rug was thrown out the door with some sort of a statement that, “I’m not bought [00:25:30] so cheaply.” So, it wasn’t that they were trying to buy them-

Bill Walton:                   We’ve already established what you are.

Robert Malone:             … it’s just the price wasn’t-

Bill Walton:                   It’s the price.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. So, WHO is corrupt. It’s been corrupt for a long time. It’s long had, let’s say, gently, intelligence, State Department influence and very much influence from the CCP.

Bill Walton:                   Well, that was the question I was going to ask you. The [00:26:00] standard trope … Frank Gaffney’s been on the show, we’re friends and help him with things. And bought and paid for by the Chinese Communist Party is the president now, but it’s much more … I mean, the controlling-

Robert Malone:             You’re talking about Tedros?

Bill Walton:                   The puppet masters. Yeah, Tedros. The puppet masters. Sounds like there are many puppet masters there.

Robert Malone:             Yeah, and has been for a long time. So, it’s not an independent entity.

Bill Walton:                   But here’s the question I’m asking. They’ve thrown this all out in public [00:26:30] that they want to redo the agreement to strike out the maze and put in-

Robert Malone:             Sort of. It’s sort of public, and then yet, they’re hiding-

Bill Walton:                   Well, they’ve been trying to sneak it through-

Robert Malone:             Yeah, they’re hiding a lot of the negotiations in the text.

Bill Walton:                   … but we’ve driven it out in the open now, though.

Robert Malone:             To the extent that we can.

Bill Walton:                   Right.

Robert Malone:             So, let’s go down that rabbit hole. There’s two key issues-

Bill Walton:                   For those listening, this is Bill Walton. I’m here with the great Robert Malone, and we’re talking [00:27:00] about a whole lot of interesting things, and we will get back to Stripe, I promise you, because that’s an interesting story about who owns the company that controls Stripe.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. So, the state of the world is, it’s for the likes of me … I mean, you’ve been in a position, Bill, where you are seeing the corridors of power-

Bill Walton:                   Sure.

Robert Malone:             … and the levers in a way that for me, I have never been able to see first person, and even now, I can just barely discern [00:27:30] the outlines based on the artifacts of what I observe and can document.

                                    But in the case of this situation that you’re referring to, the pandemic treaty, we have two things running in parallel. We have what the world community is calling a treaty, but which the current administration in the United States refuses to call a treaty because of the optics, I think largely, [00:28:00] of pushing a treaty through without getting Senate concurrence, which it turns out they have complete rights to, and typically 200, at least, per year of such agreements, executive agreements, which is the new euphemism for a treaty that’s approved without congressional authorization.

Bill Walton:                   So, this is not unusual, that something that would be called a treaty would be pushed through without the Senate voting on it?

Robert Malone:             Very much not unusual.

Bill Walton:                   Okay. So, [00:28:30] that’s something that people have been hanging their hat on, and it doesn’t sound like we should.

Robert Malone:             No. No, there’s a bunch of statements that have been made that don’t carry water. That the Senate must approve of treaties is a falsehood. And you need to go back to the Constitution. The Senate has the right to concurrence, but it doesn’t necessarily need to approve every treaty. And the courts have held that these [00:29:00] executive agreements in lieu of congressional authorization, carry the weight of law in terms of authorization of a treaty.

                                    And the thing that matters about treaties is, this gets to another fundamental constitutional principle, which is that treaties are treated in the US Constitution kind of as having equal legal weight to the Constitution. [00:29:30] So, both are mentioned in the same clause as two things that are functionally equivalent.

                                    And there’s a number of court cases that have established that number one, executive agreement carries the force of authorization of a treaty. And that in the case of [00:30:00] USA v. Pink, which goes back to about 1945 and involves financial repatriation, basically. It was established that there are limits on state’s rights when it comes to treaties. And one of the other things that has been asserted is that the Constitution vests, because it does [00:30:30] not specifically establish that the regulation of practice of medicine is within federal jurisdiction, therefore, it vests with the states. So, that’s always been the case. That’s what I’ve been taught, is states have the rights to regulate the practice of medicine, which implies all kinds of things in terms of the public health response that we’ve just encountered. And so, it’s asserted by some-

Bill Walton:                   So, you’re saying even the federalization we saw in 2020, ’21 [00:31:00] and on, the feds had no … Technically they had no ability to do what they did.

Robert Malone:             They did it through their usual means of enticement and coercion using financial levers, which is like what they do with schools and highways and everything else. So, that’s how a lot of this CDC power and influence flows from is, if you don’t comply [00:31:30] with our recommendations, then we may have to withhold resources, funds, reagents, et cetera from you. So, it’s very much the same ploy as we see with these other agencies.

Bill Walton:                   More like the mob.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. So, that gets to the, “Nice social media company you have there, it would be a shame if something happened to it.” Right?

Bill Walton:                   Well, they were getting back to the coercion we saw, maybe it was very voluntary [00:32:00] coercion because the social media companies who were on board with this, but nevertheless, they didn’t do enough-

Robert Malone:             So, regarding the WHO treaty, there’s been the idea floated that states could pass statutes, that within that state you were forbidden to comply with treaty obligations having to do with the WHO and this pandemic [00:32:30] treaty, and the other aspect, which is the International Health Regulations.

                                    The International Health Regulations are arguably a greater threat to American sovereignty in that we have already agreed to the underlying executive agreement in lieu of treaty, that establishes the original International Health Regulations, all of which were [00:33:00] phrased as optional and recommendations, but now are being rewritten as directive language. Basically, “Thou shalt do this and thou shalt do that, and thou shalt respond to the mandates of the World Health Organization.”

                                    And so, that one’s being backdoored, in that there’s a pathway that they can amend these. They weren’t supposed to be able to amend them in this way [00:33:30] and make substantial amendments, but there’s a pathway for them to amend the International Health Regulations that will create a situation where much of what the WHO seeks in terms of power to regulate international health, can be achieved even without the WHO treaty.

                                    If there’s anything that’s going to sink the WHO treaty, it’s that it has funding clauses, [00:34:00] and those funding clauses are massive. And what I’m hearing as rumor right now is that the major Western powers, let’s say, such as the United States, Germany, European Union, that would be forced to capitalize this major increase in WHO budget should that treaty pass, [00:34:30] are objecting to the price tag.

Bill Walton:                   Well, and most of the contributions up to this point have been voluntary, not mandatory.

Robert Malone:             So, this then would potentially trigger that there would be an obligation to capitalize as a function of a nation state’s overall healthcare budget. So, you can figure out where that goes in terms of who’s going to carry the biggest load, biggest healthcare budget, biggest load.

Bill Walton:                   Again, we’re going to wander, [00:35:00] but it’s totally worth wandering. This is not just about healthcare-

Robert Malone:             No.

Bill Walton:                   … because one of the powers that’s in this agreement is to declare climate as a healthcare emergency. It’s also in the agreement that anything the president deems, and of course, the president would be influenced by people, they can deem gun violence, they can deem hate speech-

Robert Malone:             And by president, you’re referring to the director general of the WHO rather than the US president?

Bill Walton:                   Yeah. Yes.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. So, Tedros would [00:35:30] have the power-

Bill Walton:                   Director general.

Robert Malone:             … to declare pretty much anything a public health emergency. And this fits into another one of these interlocking agendas called One Health, in which it’s purported that, and under the theory of One Health, the entire globe, all global ecosystems, species, et cetera, are functionally equivalent, have equal rights. This is almost a DEI- [00:36:00] like logic that we’re talking about. Diversity, equity and inclusion, I’m referring to.

                                    And so, this is kind of, One Health, you could think of as diversity, equity, and inclusion for all species and for the ecosystem at large. And so, all species must be protected. So, all species lives matter and need to be protected with a certain amount [00:36:30] of moral equivalency.

Bill Walton:                   This would be funny if they weren’t deadly serious.

Robert Malone:             They are deadly serious.

Bill Walton:                   They’re deadly serious.

Robert Malone:             And this has been percolating for a couple of decades now, and a lot of this logic comes up from the United States. Remember, the International Health Regulations modifications were originally proposed by Biden administration, Department of HHS. That’s where it’s flowing from.

Bill Walton:                   Are you familiar with Loyce Pace?

Robert Malone:             No.

Bill Walton:                   Loyce Pace is the woman who is, I believe, leading our negotiation [00:37:00] on the behalf of the United States. Now, I don’t know if she’s taken a job in government or not, but she had been executive director of the Global Health Council and her view about this … She grew up in a ghetto in, I think, Los Angeles, but then she ended up at Phillips Academy and then went to Stanford, of course. And now she sees her charge is racial health justice, decolonizing global health, [00:37:30] global health security, and COVID-19 responses. And she believes we can pivot from the scarcity mindset to a solidarity mindset. And what that means is a massive transfer of financial resources to the rest of the world.

Robert Malone:             And particularly Africa.

Bill Walton:                   Particularly in Africa. So, we’ve got this agenda, and it’s not out there with the internationalists doing, it’s right here in the middle of the Biden administration.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. A lot of it’s coming from this administration.

Bill Walton:                   The Biden [00:38:00] administration is driving it.

Robert Malone:             Yes. So, that’s another one of the misconceptions is … And it’s very easy to poke and prod and blame World Economic Forum. Klaus Schwab presents himself almost as a Hollywood villain.

Bill Walton:                   Have you met him?

Robert Malone:             No.

Bill Walton:                   I’ve met him.

Robert Malone:             Okay.

Bill Walton:                   He is a Hollywood villain.

Robert Malone:             Okay. It’s not an act. Yeah. So, all I can say is I just observe [00:38:30] the artifacts. And so, as you point out, it’s really easy to target Klaus Schwab as a puppet master. I don’t see that. I see him more as a functionary operator that has been put in place in that position by among other people, Henry Kissinger. And [00:39:00] this is another one of my core belief systems, right?

Bill Walton:                   And he was a protégé.

Robert Malone:             Absolutely.

Bill Walton:                   His resume includes long stints with Kissinger.

Robert Malone:             Absolutely. Absolutely a protégé of Kissinger’s. Put in place by Kissinger in that position. And I argue that we’re still living in a real politic Kissinger reality. And one of the great challenges we face right now is the reformulation of global public policy in a post-Kissinger era, but that’s a whole nother [00:39:30] Substack.

Bill Walton:                   We may not ever get back to Stripe.

Robert Malone:             But in terms of the WHO and the WEF and the International Health Regulations and the pandemic treaty, to comprehend this, you have to understand that, I think it was the Vienna accords on treaties, that were signed, I believe in ’69, mandate [00:40:00] that international treaties are dominant legally in international law over individual constitutions.

                                    And so, it is another one of my hypotheses, let’s put it that way, that we have a situation here where there is a pathway to end run the Constitution by [00:40:30] engaging in a broad-based treaty structure with this globalist organization that’s a branch of the United Nations, which is absolutely committed to Agenda 2030, which includes among other things, the open border policy. And that aspects of our bureaucracy have basically found a back door [00:41:00] to enable them to proceed with some of their agenda in a way that circumvents inconveniences of the US Constitution.

Bill Walton:                   Well, this seems to be all of a piece with their open borders in Mexico. I mean, this would be one of the elements if you don’t believe in that-

Robert Malone:             Open borders is absolutely a component of Agenda 2030.

Bill Walton:                   This is a whole-of-government approach to this.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Bill Walton:                   And we could maybe look at the Biden administration as implementing the Agenda [00:41:30] 2030, if you wanted to step back and say what the grand plan was?

Robert Malone:             I take that as a starting point.

Bill Walton:                   Okay.

Robert Malone:             That’s a given variable observation in my worldview of what’s going on right now. Everything is consistent, and there has been statements, repeated statements, this goes back to Obama, about the importance of implementing Agenda 2030. So, that’s [00:42:00] another one that was slipped in as basically another worldwide treaty that got passed here in the United States, I think, through executive agreement. I think it was under Obama. I’m not positive about that. That has now-

Bill Walton:                   It didn’t go through Congress.

Robert Malone:             It did not go through Congress. It’s now been implemented and has the force of treaty. And because of this Vienna treaty accord that technically those international treaties supersede national constitutions. And this is one of the things that [00:42:30] Jill and I, my partner, Dr. Jill Glasspool Malone, who writes a lot of the Substacks and really-

Bill Walton:                   Who is fantastic.

Robert Malone:             … our work product is a joint one. That’s the honest truth. We were just talking at length this morning about these things.

Bill Walton:                   I’m wondering how you produce 30,000 words a day. She told me she does most of it.

Robert Malone:             She probably does two-thirds of them right now.

Bill Walton:                   Yeah, she’s amazing.

Robert Malone:             Absolutely. I edit everything, but she’s often the primary author.

Bill Walton:                   You guys get along so well, I’m just teasing.

Robert Malone:             Credit where credit is due.

Bill Walton:                   Yeah.

Robert Malone:             [00:43:00] So, here’s the point, Bill. There is ambiguity in our Constitution about whether the Constitution itself or treaty obligations will predominate, legally, okay? And this is a huge legal controversy right now, that may be finally brought to a head because of this WHO treaty.

Bill Walton:                   Where is this being debated?

Robert Malone:             [00:43:30] In small legal circles right now, among constitutional lawyers.

Bill Walton:                   Okay. Right now, it’s off in the-

Robert Malone:             Yeah, it’s off in the intellectual space. And you can look this up about … So, this is an easy search on the web, and you’ll find tons of information going back well over a decade on the topic of treaties and the Constitution, international treaties and the Constitution. And I mentioned this key case of USA versus Pink. There’s a number of other ones.

                                    [00:44:00] And I think that this is another one akin to some of these other legal controversies that are starting to come to a head during the COVID crisis, they haven’t really been challenged in the past. That this issue of whether or not treaties can supersede [00:44:30] the Constitution is at the center of the entire globalist, we could call it, agenda or experiment. But in terms of can one sustain American sovereignty, US sovereignty in the face of this push towards a one-world government, a globalist agenda, Agenda 2030? With a whole bunch of phrases we can string together relating to this.

                                    I [00:45:00] think the key legal hinge, turning point involves this existing ambiguity in US Constitution, US constitutional law about the preeminence of international treaties versus the Constitution itself. And that relates, of course, to state rights, because the issue that’s coming to fore right now in some states is an effort to, [00:45:30] as I mentioned, mandate that for a given state, one would not need to comply with these international health regulations or treaty obligations that are coming down from WHO.

                                    So, states are attempting to take the logic that since the right to regulate the practice of medicine was not established to the federal government, it vests to the states. Therefore, if the federal government [00:46:00] executes a treaty with the WHO, that would then supersede that and ostensibly force states to comply with mandates or edicts that might come from this non-US globalist body, a extra-national body. That this violates fundamental constitutional principles of the, I think, it’s 10th Amendment.

Bill Walton:                   [00:46:30] Well, a couple of thoughts on that. One is, if there’s a federalist solution back in the sense of the word that each of the 50 states is part of a federation and it can have state-level laws and regulations, not every state’s going to do that.

Robert Malone:             Right.

Bill Walton:                   It lines up now about 20, 25 or so, states would line up saying, “We demand this. We demand control of our own healthcare.” The [00:47:00] rest wouldn’t. And so, we’re ending up with this map that looks an awful lot like us versus them on this issue.

Robert Malone:             Because of this Vienna treaty accord-

Bill Walton:                   Yeah, 1969 and we were-

Robert Malone:             … it’s moot.

Bill Walton:                   Okay.

Robert Malone:             Because according to that which we have signed as a treaty, it establishes-

Bill Walton:                   So, in 1969, we somehow gave up the rights for states to assert their own control over healthcare?

Robert Malone:             We engaged in a treaty [00:47:30] in which we concurred that international law based on treaties would supersede national constitutions.

Bill Walton:                   So, the states would be bound by these international agreements. So, that’s the tie right there.

Robert Malone:             Bingo.

Bill Walton:                   Okay.

Robert Malone:             And that is the conveyor belt, the pathway by which this international law then gets imposed domestically.

Bill Walton:                   Well then, we talked before we got on air, about we ought to be careful about holding out Donald Trump, [00:48:00] and I’m for Donald Trump, as being the magic solution to all these problems that are being created, because with the World Health Organization in particular, they’re hurrying to get us bound by this even before the election.

Robert Malone:             If they can.

Bill Walton:                   There are meetings at the end of May, first week in June. World Health Assembly.

Robert Malone:             There’s two major thrust vectors right now that, I think, are driving that sense of urgency. And one of them is the US [00:48:30] election. The other one that we aren’t so aware of here in the United States is the upcoming European Parliament elections, because we have this broad-based populist movement across all of Europe right now, that is threatening the existing, let’s say, social democratic party coalitions. And it’s, of course, labeled as far-right. But I think it’s a reasonable metaphor to think of it as akin to the Tea Party. [00:49:00] It’s a populist movement and with a number of particular grievances, such as the farmers objecting to the destruction of their livelihood, and a number of others.

Bill Walton:                   In Netherlands, and in Germany and France. I mean, this is-

Robert Malone:             Portugal.

Bill Walton:                   Yeah, Portugal, exactly.

Robert Malone:             It’s happening all across Europe now. Italy. So, the rise of these populist movements are coinciding with upcoming European Parliament elections that are going [00:49:30] to happen this summer, and that could switch the composition of the European Parliament. And a lot of folks aren’t really aware … We throw about this … Bandied this word, democracy. The European Commission and the European president are at best indirectly elected. [00:50:00] And in terms of the commission that nominates the president, and then the parliament basically concurs. That’s all largely independent of the electorate in each of the member states.

                                    I’ve spoken to Christine Anderson about this at length, from the AFD party, which is in Germany, [00:50:30] is being so harshly, among other things, attempted to be de-banked. That gets back to our other thing, it’s a weaponization of finance. And censored, et cetera. She points out that the Bundestag in Germany may vote for something, but it’s largely irrelevant because that can be ignored or overturned easily by any of those three entities, the president of the European Union, the European Commission, [00:51:00] or the European Parliament. So, functionally, it’s a partial metaphor to the formerly independent nation states of Europe are functioning more like American states, and have very limited power in the face of federal government. And they have even less-

Bill Walton:                   The European federal government?

Robert Malone:             The European federal government, they even have less power than they have here in the United States. And so, if there’s a major turnover [00:51:30] in the European Parliament, then what’s her name, Ursula von der Leyen?

Bill Walton:                   Sure.

Robert Malone:             Then she faces a, we call it existential crisis on her political career, as does the European Commission. And if that falls, then there’s the perceived risk of a cascade of Brexit-like events. So, the dissolution of [00:52:00] the European experiment. And if that falls, then NATO falls.

                                    And so, this is truly, they’re confronting now a true existential crisis in terms of American foreign policy and the underpinnings of the Western world in terms of how we’re seeing it, because of these upcoming elections and this populist movement. So, all of this is converging. It’s not just Donald Trump, it’s all of these other things. And Donald Trump, I can tell you from [00:52:30] first person, is perceived as a role model throughout these populist movements across Europe. So, he’s-

Bill Walton:                   Except the hair part.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. And some other things.

Bill Walton:                   Some other things. Yeah.

Robert Malone:             Yeah, but in terms of his smash-mouth, in-your-face populism-

Bill Walton:                   You said something, for people who were listening, that they react to NATO falling apart. Be clear, NATO falling apart could be a very good thing. It’s become [00:53:00] a very aggressive problem in Europe. And so, it’s not a bad thing. It’s a 75-year-old treaty, I’ll use that word, that’s long past its usefulness.

Robert Malone:             So, this is one of the things that’s really been troubling me is we have a series of assumptions in our foreign policy. This loop back to my comment before. I think one of the biggest challenges we face right now is to redefine a post- [00:53:30] Kissinger foreign policy, because we’re now in a multilateral world in which real politic, which leads us again and again and again down very bad moral roads, under the justification that a little bit of evil is necessary to counter a much greater evil. Right? And the problem is that we see again and again, is when you engage with [00:54:00] evil, you eventually assimilate it, you become it, and it compromises your own underpinnings.

Bill Walton:                   And that feels like an awful lot where we are right now.

Robert Malone:             And the risk is, the warning, I think, to anybody processing this and thinking about it is Jimmy Carter. We don’t want to be in a position where we’re substituting morality strictly for US [00:54:30] geopolitical interests. Somehow, we have to strike a realistic balance. And I think we have to do a lot of hard thinking.

                                    And I think back to the role models that I was taught when I was taking political science, of great leaders in American geopolitics, George Kennan and the containment policy, a much more pragmatic, realistic recognition. [00:55:00] And I think a containment policy built around a multilateral reality is more aligned with where we should be rather than moral preaching developed democracy logic.

Bill Walton:                   Oh, I so agree. Here’s one of the ironies of history. They created the European Union so that we wouldn’t have European states fight each other. And now we’re seeing the head of NATO, he’s a warmonger. And this fellow, John, [00:55:30] his last name, I forget, who was from Norway, previous leader of Norway, we’re now likely they’re pushing us towards a war with Russia that’s likely to go nuclear. So, this theory of the case where if you put all the European countries together, they’ll be more peaceful.

Robert Malone:             They’ll all play nice in the sandbox with each other.

Bill Walton:                   And guess what? They’ve enlarged the sandbox and now we’ve got a bigger conflagration that’s possible.

Robert Malone:             The [00:56:00] blowback is wicked hard and it’s chronic.

Bill Walton:                   So, we’ve wandered way past … You’re going to have to come back. We’re going to have talk some more. I wanted to keep this to an hour, and we could probably go for five, but let’s come back to Stripe.

Robert Malone:             Yeah.

Bill Walton:                   And Stripe, the weaponization of finance is sort of part of this. When we think about the globalist movement and we talk about Davos, I did see Davos several years ago roll [00:56:30] out a credit card that would accomplish much of what the Chinese have accomplished with their social credit system, where you get points for good behavior, lose points for bad behavior. And that system eventually can control whether you can travel, whether you can go attend concerts, whether you can educate, pay for school, go on vacation.

Robert Malone:             Whether you can go shopping.

Bill Walton:                   Go shopping. So, what you’re experiencing with the Stripe payment is exactly the aim.

Robert Malone:             I completely concur, is it’s part of this incremental [00:57:00] implementation of the weaponization of finance for social control. And I argue that that is fundamentally immoral.

Bill Walton:                   I agree.

Robert Malone:             That gets to my point about morality versus this creeping justification based on best intentions. That’s how this is justified again, and again. We’re all against terrorism. [00:57:30] Who is for terrorism? Well, what are we going to do to control terrorism? Well, we have to be able to deprive them of their finances because if we deprive them of their finances, then they can’t operate and they can’t do their bad stuff, and they can’t go buy tons of nitrate-based fertilizers and diesel oil or whatever the thing is, right?

                                    And so, it’s all for the best reasons. And like everything that happens in a bureaucracy, that then gets incrementally [00:58:00] exploited to enable the advancement of other bureaucratic agendas. And so, if you’re sitting here in an agency … I think this is the big picture of what drives all of this, is you’re a bureaucrat sitting at your agency and you want to do good. Let’s assume just for the sake of argument, that they’re acting in what they believe to be the best interest of the American people.

                                    [00:58:30] And DEI is all wrapped up, and ESG, in the logic of being in the best interest of the American people at large. This is always the case that we call these people do-gooders or there’s a lot of euphemisms, but they see themselves as advancing the public interest. And so, they’re looking for ways to advance the public interest in the face of the constraints that exist politically, constitutionally, et cetera. [00:59:00] And so, they’re constantly probing for some crack in the system that they can exploit in order to advance their agenda. And that’s, I think, what we see again and again and again as blowback, is the unintended consequences of doing something which we believe we’re doing for the best of reasons. And then it gets exploited by those who are also thinking they’re doing something because we need to advance the economic interests [00:59:30] of the American defense establishment or whatever the thing is. Right?

                                    And then suddenly we can justify this based on, “Well, we’ve done it already.” That’s why I started with that statement about the whole cascade of weaponization of finance. And then we get to the point where we are way across the line of morally acceptable behavior. And locking people out of their bank accounts has to be one of the most [01:00:00] egregious actions that anybody could take, as far as I’m concerned, that the state could take. And the state is absolutely acting in cooperative-

Bill Walton:                   I think if we have another Biden administration, I won’t say Joe Biden, but administration run by the same people, I think we’re just a couple years away from that. I think a central bank digital currency is probably inevitable.

Robert Malone:             Yeah. Well, that’s why I thought it was important to note that [01:00:30] the SWIFT banking system, which is what we in part weaponized against Russia, is now strongly endorsing CBDCs and planning on implementing them and has already done testing on implementing CBDCs.

Bill Walton:                   Okay. Well, we need to stop, I won’t say end, but we’ll hit the pause button right now. We’ll figure out the next way to … Should I make it a cliffhanger to tell people who owns Stripe?

Robert Malone:             No, I think you should [01:01:00] go ahead and you might as well wrap it.

Bill Walton:                   It turns out it’s owned by a venture capital firm, which is controlled by Jared Kushner’s brother.

Robert Malone:             Right. Yes. Stripe is a fascinating-

Bill Walton:                   And I’m not going to say necessarily that’s a Jared Kushner production, but it’s all of the same-

Robert Malone:             It’s all in the family.

Bill Walton:                   It’s in the same world. It’s all in the family.

Robert Malone:             It’s all in the family. And Stripe was apparently originally launched in Ireland, which now is implementing these really egregious censorship policies that they’re trying to force on [01:01:30] the rest of the world, and has offices in San Francisco. So, if you’re going to do business with Stripe domestically, you have to deal with them in San Francisco, which is why in the end, in order to get this whole mess resolved, I had to retain a high-end San Francisco First Amendment law firm, California-based-

Bill Walton:                   That Harmeet Dhillon’s firm?

Robert Malone:             Which is the Dhillon Law Group.

Bill Walton:                   Yeah.

Robert Malone:             So, the good news to jump to the conclusion of the story with Stripe is we engaged them immediately [01:02:00] and it took a fair amount of treasure to do so, and they responded extremely promptly, I wouldn’t say aggressively, but appropriately to Stripe. Documented what Stripe had done, held them accountable. And Stripe, within days of the articles coming out, like in the Federalist and our Substack article covering this topic, Stripe capitulated, and suddenly [01:02:30] found it acceptable that we would just fill out a very vanilla form talking about our financial needs and whether we anticipated that we were going to need additional capital over the next two years.

Bill Walton:                   My guess is they’ve knuckled back because of your fame and your profile. If you were a smaller guy without the justified-

Robert Malone:             Outrage.

Bill Walton:                   Fill in the blank. But [01:03:00] this is going to keep happening.

Robert Malone:             Absolutely. And it is still happening. I’ve been contacted by others that have been de-platformed. Libs of TikTok was de-platformed. And then apparently Elon Musk interceded, and suddenly they came up with another garden variety excuse, oh they just hadn’t filled out the right paperwork or they hadn’t put a hyphen in a particular listing.

Bill Walton:                   Clerical error.

Robert Malone:             Yeah, clerical error, exactly.

Bill Walton:                   In the digital age.

Robert Malone:             [01:03:30] But I’m aware of another person that had received the same messaging, that is a broadcaster and well-known, works for the Lindell Network, and was also threatened, but without the deadline, for the de-platforming of her Substack revenue. And then another one that I am not even able to allude to, also got notification and was [01:04:00] financially de-platformed. And I don’t know how that’s going to be resolved, but this is absolutely not over. They just backed down over our particular situation, but I fully expect more test marketing of a variety of strategies.

                                    They also, by the way, took off their website, any reference to this being in response to any federal government communication, [01:04:30] interestingly enough.

Bill Walton:                   They didn’t want it on the record, but it certainly was, I’m sure. Thank you. I’m going to have you back. I just remembered we didn’t get to talk about On-Line Narcissistic Self-Victimization and why we ought to choose personal growth over short-term dopamine hits. I think this is the heart of the matter issue in our digital age as to how you deal with all that.

Robert Malone:             I agree.

Bill Walton:                   It’s a deep topic. [01:05:00] I want to spend a little more time on it, so-

Robert Malone:             So, let’s do it again.

Bill Walton:                   … we’ll get you back. Yeah. Okay. To be continued. Anyway, thanks, Robert Malone. Dr. Robert Malone, as I said, great man and a hero of mine and is thrilled to spend this time talking about this issue and other issues. And I’m glad we got back to find out who owns Stripe. That’s another thing to explore.

                                    Anyway, thanks for joining, and as usual, you can find us in all the podcast platforms and Rumble and YouTube, and on our Substack site, we’re [01:05:30] on there as well. And as well as on CPAC Now on Monday nights. And stay tuned, we’ll be back to talk about another interesting topic with Dr. Malone about narcissism, which I fear too many in this modern age are a victim of. So anyway, thanks for joining and we’ll talk again real soon.